Korean Epis vs Chinese

[Dudemeister]

I know this has been previously discussed, but I'd like to get conversation going about older Korean made LesPauls vs the new Chinese made ones. Input from those that own both would be great.

I for one, only have Korean made Les Pauls, 3 of them Les Paul Standards, the other 2 are the Customs. They come from different factories, and not one is identical to another. Yes, I know they have templates to follow, but they all have their own characteristics, different shape headstocks, different heels, different body radius, different electronics. It's a mishmash, yet they're all Les Pauls.

Of course I have my favorites, for one reason or another, but they're pretty much similar

So what about you guys, what do you think about this, Korean or Chinese. If Korean, which is your preferred factory, why? What about resale value, are the Koreans more desirable/valuable than the Chinese models?

Thanks,

 

[Paruwi]

They come from different factories, and not one is identical to another. Yes, I know they have templates to follow, but they all have their own characteristics, different shape headstocks, different heels, different body radius, different electronics. It's a mishmash, yet they're all Les Pauls.

That is exactly why they are so 'different' or inconsistent compared to todays €pis
you can spot many MiK €pis just by the misalignment of the tuners....

What about resale value, are the Koreans more desirable/valuable than the Chinese models?

personally I would not pay a single €/$ more for the country they were made
rate the guitar - not the country they were made

So what about you guys, what do you think about this, Korean or Chinese.

I had a few korean €pis, most of them were made at the Unsung factory, they all were well made
Unsung was the only korean factory that made €pis up to ~ 2015 or so
there might be a reason for this....

the two €pis I currently own are the Unsung korean made €-175-Premium
and the Samick Indonesian made Dave Navarro Sign.
both great guitars

I have not bought any new chinese made €pi for some years, especially not since they went up in price close to what I've paid for some of my MiJ FGNs, there is no reason for me to do

 

[Charles Carter]

So what about you guys, what do you think about this, Korean or Chinese. If Korean, which is your preferred factory, why? What about resale value, are the Koreans more desirable/valuable than the Chinese models?

This is an interesting point. I've seen several Korean made Epis being sold as such as if it made a big difference and being priced ridiculously high in a couple of cases because they were Korean made. One went so far as to say "None of that Chinese rubbish!" I had to DM that guy and correct him. He ignored me and over a few weeks I saw the reserve price of that guitar drop and drop.

My point being some people have the idea that Korean made Epis are superior. Bollocks they are!
Whether the early Chinese ones had some QC issues or whether it's simply a case of Sinophobia and people hating Chinese products because of their decades old reputation for pressed tin junk I don't know?
What I do know is that my Qingdao made Epis (the earliest ones made in 2018) are easily as good as my Unsung one. Their build quality, finish, fit and feel are perfect to my eyes, ears and hands.
I also have seven that came out of the Samick factory in Indonesia. They don't seem to come into question like the Qingdao ones but they too are fantastic, faultless instruments.
I believe the negativity toward Qingdao instruments is driven by old thinking, an outdated reputation that China has for producing poor quality products and in some cases people pushing the Korean quality because they're hoping for an extra few bucks when selling. They can't possibly have compared them to a modern Chinese Epi or they wouldn't still have that opinion.

 

[Charles Carter]

That 175 would be a nice instrument if it wasn't BLACK! BLACK JONNY, BLACK!

 

[Paruwi]

That 175 would be a nice instrument

it sure IS a nice guitar

 

[BGood]

Korean Epis better ? Internet propaganda. Some are great, some less. The closer in time you get to today, the better Asian Epiphones are, country notwithstanding. Now with the new Inspired by Gibson Series, they are almost at par with the Gibson models.

 

[dodona]

That 175 would be a nice instrument if it wasn't BLACK! BLACK JONNY, BLACK!

View attachment 20422

looks naked. I don't like it.

 

[Raiyn]

personally I would not pay a single €/$ more for the country they were made
rate the guitar - not the country they were made

Especially now with modern CNC manufacturing. The machine doesn't know or care where it is.

My point being some people have the idea that Korean made Epis are superior. Bollocks they are!
Whether the early Chinese ones had some QC issues or whether it's simply a case of Sinophobia and people hating Chinese products because of their decades old reputation for pressed tin junk I don't know?

There are puh-lenty of reasons not to like China (more accurately and specifically their government), and they (as a country) still produce a staggering amount of cheap counterfeit goods as well as outright dangerous fake products. That's still true.

However, the Epiphone guitars made there aren't made in a back alley. Even as far back as my '07 G400 they were really good. Not perfect at that point, but they've only improved since.

Now with the new Inspired by Gibson Series, they are almost at par with the Gibson models.

I love that diplomatic "almost".

An interesting Epi/Slash article

https://www.guitarplayer.com/news/gibson-reveals-the-inside-story-of-epiphone-slash-collection-clones

www.epiphonetalk.com

Sure, Gibson is still the "Aspirational brand" but for those of us who's ego can withstand not owning a flagship phone or driving a mid-life crisis mobile, an Epi make more sense.

 

[BGood]

looks naked. I don't like it.

You prude ...

 

[Diamond Dave]

In 2023, what Epis are not made in one of the two Qingdao factories, besides the new USA models?

 

[AJ6stringsting]

I own a 2007 Epiphone Les Paul Custom, the only thing wrong with it was the fact that a fret was slightly too high at the ninth fret, which was no problem for me.



The bridge and tailpiece was kind of holding back the punch and sustain , but I replaced the tailpiece with a Schaller tailpiece with fine tuners and the bridge with a Wilkinson Roller bridge.... problem solved .

I replaced the Alinico V 14.20k ohms bridge pickup with 16.91k ohms Alnico V Dragonfire just to get it more aggressive sounding . I also replaced the Alnico V 8.06k ohms neck pickup with a Seymour Duncan Screamin Demon, but the original Epiphone pick sounded much better than the SD Pickup with a Triple Shot pickup ring .

I tried some of the newer Epiphone LPC's from China and the older ones from Korea , both are equally great .
Today's Epiphone's are much better, they seemed to have made improvements with QC ( unlike Gibson ) , better quality bridges, tailpiece and electronics .

 

[Noodling Guitars]

I have both - in some cases the same guitar too... As with others here, I have had MIK ones that are immaculate OOTB and ones that had issues (which were remedied) - it wasn't so much the country of origin as much as QC being a variable thing. The only reason I would choose an MIK over a MIC is if the MIK was more aesthetically pleasing - in very limited circumstances this is the case (i.e. no back veneer) - but then you'd need to factor in playability and whether the frets need servicing. No point in getting a 20+ year old MIK that needs a level/recrown (unless you have the tools and know how to do it well).

Note that depending on the year/factory, the horn on the MIK looks different than the current MIC ones too, with the current line being closer to their Gibson counterpart IMHO. The knob placement is different too. Also MIK is before the lock-tone stuff (which I actually think is quite good for stock hardware) - some of the older MIK hardware pitted pretty quickly - not an issue unless you live in a place that's subject to huge fluctuations in heat/humidity.

Epis in general don't really hold value all that much in resale - MIJ included (with the exception of a few specific artist models).

I urge you to give that article in the post that Raiyn linked a read. One of the main improvements in current MIC models is that Epi is working closer with Gibson on a lot of the designs. You have a better variety of neck profiles and the electronics are higher quality.

 

[Paruwi]

what Epis are not made in one of the two Qingdao factories

many of the 'Entry Level' models are made at the Samick factory in Indonesia,
Factorycode 23 in the serial# YYMM23XXXXX

 

[BGood]

The only reason I would choose an MIK over a MIC is if the MIK was more aesthetically pleasing

Some of the nicest wildest most saturated flame tops I've seen on Epiphpne were from Korea.

 

[7whiskeycharley]

I freqently go to shops that carry lots of used guitars and am always looking for used 335s and Sheratons. The Korean production models seem to regularly carry a higher resale value than the Chinese. I would say the same goes for the Korean Gretsches vs Chinese.

Are they better? I don't know, it's hard to compare used with new. If the used guitar is better or worse than the new it could either be because the previous owner has neglected it or has already gotten the bugs out of it. Some of the Korean Epiphone semi hollows I've played are pretty nice, although I'd say the current models look better, particularly the pick guards and headstocks..

 

[Equalphone]

There seems to be a certain grading in the marketplace with Asian guitars from (pick one) manufacturers. Japanese guitars are usually the top-tier. Korean is just below that but generally top for Epi since they didn't make what we like in Japan. Chinese is at the bottom.

With Epi, the general sentiment is that the inexpensive Japanese made guitars from the 70's when they were trying to rescue the company and complete with "imports" are not very good. It's mostly irrelevant since you don't see many if any Japanese Epi's in the marketplace.

Korea is next and so that gets top tier for Epi's. Deserved? Maybe. Maybe not. Guitars are very individual. We know that. But the marketplace doesn't. They still seem to command a premium.

That leaves China at the bottom according to the marketplace. But we all know there's quality there too. Some very good, some bad. Quality always improving but manufacturers get what they spec as a general rule. Epi is doing good things in China. Competition in that space has had a very positive effect on Epi guitars.

But the used marketplace doesn't really reflect recent Chinese improvements. Korea is still the draw right now.

What's next? China is becoming expensive to manufacture in. Just like other countries before it. I listened to a guy recently who made his fortune in China saying that costs per hour (wages and benefits) were up to $12/hour - and that was too high for them. Production of many things, guitars included, will be moving to other Asian & Malaysian countries where it's cheaper in the coming years.

Soon China will join the list of "upscale" and the good guitars from there will be up-priced accordingly.

"Ooh, this is one of the Chinese models from 2021! Those were great!".

 

[Paruwi]

There seems to be a certain grading in the marketplace with Asian guitars from (pick one) manufacturers. Japanese guitars are usually the top-tier. Korean is just below that but generally top for Epi since they didn't make what we like in Japan. Chinese is at the bottom.

I'd like to agree - although there is a big difference between the todays guitars and the ones from the past decades, regardless if Japan, Korea, China or Indonesian made

There are Top guitars made at different korean factories like Peerless, WMI and others, they are sold for €/$ 1000-1500 (and are probably worth what they cost)
and there are those 'cheap' €pis and other brands made at a sh!tload of different OEM factories to even more different levels.
If I see a 90s €pi with croocked tuners and tiny pots offered as better than todays €pi - I just laugh at it.

Basicly the same story with MiC, todays Eastman guitars are playing in another league than random MiC guitars from the last decades.
Or look what Ibanez and others offer from Cort / Samick indonesian factories....

Personally I like my 9 MiJ guitars, all made 2010 and later
I've never looked at those old Japan made ones from the time when Japan 'learned' to build good guitars

all of the above is IMO

 

[Charles Carter]

many of the 'Entry Level' models are made at the Samick factory in Indonesia,
Factorycode 23 in the serial# YYMM23XXXXX

Of my Epis these were all made in the Samick Factory ... just as a matter of interest.

Masterbilt FJ 79 Texan.
Masterbilt DR500 MCE.
Masterbilt Olympic Zenith.
Joe Pass, Emperor II Pro.
Ltd Ed EL-00.
EJ 200 SCE.
PR 5e.

Possibly my EN-645 CENS too. I don't know where that was made?

 

[Charles Carter]

With Epi, the general sentiment is that the inexpensive Japanese made guitars from the 70's when they were trying to rescue the company and complete with "imports" are not very good. It's mostly irrelevant since you don't see many if any Japanese Epi's in the marketplace.

The 1970s FTs I've come across (and there have been a few for sale here recently) come out of the Matsumoku factory and the FT 150 I own is a beautiful example.
Well built and a pleasure to play.
I don't know if that's the rule or if I was just very lucky but Matsumoku made instruments do have a great reputation.

 

[Paruwi]

I don't know where that was made?

what is the serial# ?